Mountaintop Experiences

By TNSr5r@unseen.is, October, 2013

 

I am tired of them. I don’t want to go to them anymore. I won’t participate in them again. I don’t even want to hear from anyone else about them.

What am I talking about? Some people enjoy them as worship experiences. Others value them as mountaintop experiences. I call them Christian pep rallies; the pep rallies that so many churches and Christian groups hold in the name of God.

You know what I am talking about.

These pep rallies often center around top name Christian singing groups, all of which have a strong high tenor or a strong high soprano, or both, whose voices are always very powerful. A song starts out in a normal key so most of the audience can sing along. But each verse transitions into a higher key so that, after four or five verses, only a handful of tenors and sopranos in the country can sing that high and that strong. And then the final chord of the final verse is held so high and so strong and so long that it raises the hair on your arms and gives you goose bumps. When the song breaks, it leaves you so excited that you absolutely MUST shout something. So you shout something spiritual like everyone else around you. And just then the group starts another verse in an even higher key.

After a few of these songs, everyone is so emotionally jacked up that shouting spiritual words and phrases is almost impossible to resist.

And then the worship leader starts a slow, soft song, accompanied by some sort of announcement that “the Holy Spirit is in this place.” The Holy Spirit apparently waits for a slow song before he shows up to these things… At this point, the leader often says something like, “Raise your hands if you can feel the presence of God.” Of course, nearly everyone can feel SOMETHING, so nearly everyone raises their hands. And the worship leader leads the audience through several verses of that slow song so that everyone gets the chance to feel God even more.

And often this whole process is repeated two or three times more, so everyone can go home claiming to have participated in such an awesome worship experience.

But was this truly a valid worship experience?

And if this was a valid worship experience, was it a good thing

And if it was a good thing, was it a biblical experience?

Before I get burned at the stake for asking such questions and raising such doubts, let me make this clear: I LOVE THESE WORSHIP EXPERIENCES!!

I have attended them; I have sought them out on the radio; I own them on CDs and DVDs; I have even led these experiences myself.

But I have come to realize that they are often nothing more than an old-fashioned high school football pep rally with a spiritual emphasis. Pep rallies have a purpose; they aren’t bad in and of themselves. But they are pep rallies. And their purpose, be it at a football game or at a Christian concert, is to get people excited.

I can, and HAVE, reproduced the same sort of feelings in myself and in others by using the same psychological gimmicks, but without any mention of Jesus.

During the fall of each year, the same level of emotional euphoria and near-hysteria is accomplished hundreds of times each week on high school and college campuses all over America.

Okay, I admit, I probably just made it impossible to avoid being burned at that stake by a mob of angry but sincere Christians.

But before I meet that stake, before you strike that match, I really need to ask the question few people ever want to answer: WHY?

Why do we need these emotionally manipulative Christian pep rallies?

Does God need them in order for the Holy Spirit to visit our worship experiences?

Or do these pep rallies primarily benefit the spiritual junkies who need still another “mountain-top experience?”

And is a “mountain-top experience” good for our spiritual lives?

As I said before, I LOVE these mountain-top experiences. I am, to some extent, a spiritual junkie myself. But I have to ask of myself and of others, “Exactly what benefit do we receive from being emotionally jacked-up, even when it is done in a spiritual environment?”

Maybe we should have started this article with a look at the mountain top experience that Jesus shared with some of his disciples. Perhaps we can get some clues as to the value of that type of high by looking at and listening to Jesus

We can find the account of this mountaintop experience in Matthew 17:1-13, Mark 9:1-13, and Luke 9:27-36. All three accounts are virtually identical and all three accounts tell us of the same events preceding this experience: Jesus taught of his coming death; Jesus taught about us taking up our crosses and following him; and Jesus and his disciples took a week off. Then Jesus took Peter, James, and John up a mountain.

There he was transfigured before them. [Matthew 17:2, New International Version]

While transfigured, Jesus walked around with Moses and Elijah for a while. And God put his seal of approval on this particular mountaintop experience by doing his Exodus cloud thing and saying,

“This is my beloved Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”  [Matthew 17:5, NIV]

Can you imagine anything more exciting than this? Think about it! You have witnessed Jesus healing people and casting out demons more times than you can remember. You were hand-picked by Jesus to be in his core group of disciples. And over the past few weeks and months, your role has developed into the primary disciple, Christ’s main man! Then you get to see Jesus transfigured. You get to see Moses and Elijah alive and talking with Jesus. God shows up in a cloud like he did almost 2,000 years ago. THEN GOD SPEAKS TO YOU!

And what do you do?

You propose doing something that Jesus does not want!

Peter may have been well-intentioned but his agenda was NOT Christ’s agenda. In fact, it was so far from Christ’s agenda that Jesus told them not to tell anyone about the entire experience; not even the other disciples!

As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.” [Matthew 17:9, NIV]

As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead. [Mark 9:9, NIV]

The greatest mountaintop experience in Scripture led the greatest disciple on record to suggest the wrong thing to do!

Or let’s look at what might be the second greatest mountaintop experience in Scripture; this one in the Old Testament and in this one Elijah was not a secondary character.

In I Kings, we can read the story of the first time Elijah was on earth. Starting in chapter seventeen, we see Elijah introduced and given his first assignment – he was called by God to denounce the most evil king the Jews ever had.

And Ahab son of Omri did evil in the sight of the Lord above all before him. As if it had been a light thing for Ahab to walk in the sins of Jeroboam son of Nebat, he took for a wife Jezebel daughter of Ethbaal King of the Sidonians, and served Baal and worshipped him. [I Kings 16:30-31, Amplified Bible]

Not only was Ahab the most evil king the Jews ever had, he married the most evil woman the Jews had ever known! And they both worshipped the most evil god the world had ever seen!

And God called Elijah to denounce Ahab and tell him that God was sending a drought to Israel because of what Ahab was doing. And Elijah did exactly what God asked and actually survived it!

Talk about a rush!

Then God told Elijah to hide in a cave by the brook called Cherith east of Jordan.

After many months, the brook dried up. After all, there was a drought going on, right? So God gave him a new address and Elijah moved to a small town called Zerepath. There he met a woman who was a widow, who had a child and who was starving to death because of the drought Elijah had called down. Elijah asked for some food and she told him she had almost nothing for herself and her son. Elijah told her that if she fed him God would make sure she would not starve. She could have said, “Right!” and walked away. But she decided to trust God and did what Elijah asked. As a result of her faith, God fed her and her son “for many days” until the rains came and everyone had food, as it says in chapter 17.

Then something horrible happened: the woman’s son got sick and died. You know she had to be thinking, “Oh yes, God promised that my son and I would not starve, so he let my son die of a fever.” But Elijah was still walking in the excitement and knowledge of God, and he took the son away to the attic room where Elijah slept. There Elijah prayed and the son lived again. And Elijah lived in peace with the widow and her son until the rains came.

Sometime after raising the boy from the dead, on toward the end of the third year of the drought, God told Elijah to go back to Ahab and tell him it was about to rain. So Elijah and Ahab met, and Ahab was not at all in a good mood.

When Ahab saw Elijah, Ahab said to him, “Are you he who troubles Israel?”  [I Kings 18:17, AMP]

I am certain that Elijah responded with, “You haven’t seen trouble yet. But trouble sure is coming!” I haven’t found any translation which includes that comment, but I am sure Elijah said it. Be that as it may (or may not), we do know that Elijah said the following:

Elijah replied, “I have not troubled Israel, but you have, and your father’s house, by forsaking the commandments of the Lord and by following the Baals.” [I Kings 18:18, AMP]

And Elijah issued a challenge. He told Ahab to gather 450 prophets of Baal (who Ahab followed) and the 400 prophets of the sex goddess Asherah (who Jezebel followed), along with all the people, and bring them all to Mount Carmel.

Once there, Elijah put together a rigged demonstration; rigged against Elijah and his God. The 450 prophets of Baal, assisted by the 400 prophets of Asherah, set up an altar of stone with wood on it and a bull, fully cut up and prepared, placed on top. And then this 850 prophets of foreign gods were given hours, from early morning to late afternoon, to pray down fire on the sacrifice.

And nothing happened.

Then Elijah built his altar and prepared his sacrifice. Further, he asked that four large water jars be emptied on the altar; and again; and a third time. After twelve large water jars had been emptied on his altar, Elijah prayed 63 words. Not twelve hours, but less than one minute. And then fire came down from heaven and consumed everything: the sacrifice, the wood, the stones, the dust, even the water that had drained off the alter and into the trench surrounding the alter.

When all the people saw it, they fell on their faces and they said, “The Lord, he is God! The Lord, he is God!” [I Kings 18:39, AMP]

I mean, ya think?

With the people properly motivated (and intimidated!), Elijah had them kill all the false prophets of Baal and Asherah.

And then Elijah prayed for rain, and it rained.

Something that is seldom mentioned in sermons and teachings on this event involves everyone leaving Mount Carmel before it rained. Elijah said something like, “King Ahab, I am about to ask God to empty the clouds and have it rain all over us. You better get down the mountainside before the roads get so wet that your chariots won’t be able to make it down the roads.” So Ahab headed down the mountain while Elijah prayed. After praying, but before the rain started, Elijah headed down the mountain himself. But Elijah was so excited and so motivated by his “mountaintop experience” that he ran all twenty miles back to town and got there before Ahab and his chariot.

How was that for mountaintop excitement?

But no sooner than Ahab told Jezebel about everything, including the loss of 400 prophets of her god that she used as personal servants, than Jezebel sent a message to Elijah: “I am going to make you as dead as you made my prophets, and by this time tomorrow.” See I Kings 19:2.

And no matter what his mountaintop experience, and no matter how excited he was about serving God under miraculous circumstances, Elijah allowed his emotions to continue in control, and…

Elijah was afraid, and ran for his life. [I Kings 19:3, NIV]

So what can we take away from a short review of two important, even awesome, mountaintop experiences? There are perhaps any number of lessons, or conclusions, we can draw from these two experiences, but I suspect that most would make for poor theology. However, I do believe we can draw two valid and valuable principles from these two Scriptural events.

First, mountaintop experiences do not impart spiritual maturity or spiritual wisdom.

Second, mountaintop experiences feed our emotions, and emotions are seldom logical or wise.

I do not believe that I err when I suggest that a mountaintop experience will often lead to a significant spiritual challenge, even a spiritual setback. Think about it.

In both of these biblical experiences, we see the people’s emotions in control of them and unwise, even wrong, decisions that come out of these emotions. Peter wanted to build three temples so he could continue, or repeat continuously whenever he wanted, that wonderful experience. And Jesus not only wouldn’t let him do it, Jesus wouldn’t even let him talk about it. And Elijah was so excited about God’s victories that after seeing God’s fire consume his sacrifice, after facing 850 enemy prophets and killing them all, even after outrunning Ahab’s chariot for twenty miles, he runs and hides from one woman’s threat.

When our emotions are running high, our emotions often make our decisions for us. And emotional decisions are seldom based on the Word of God. When we react to what we see and hear and FEEL, it is our emotions that are in control of us and not the Spirit of God.

We live by faith, not by sight. [II Corinthians 5:7, NIV]

Or even more clearly translated:

For we walk by faith [we regulate our lives and conduct ourselves by our conviction or belief respecting man’s relationship to God and divine things, with trust and holy fervor; thus we walk] not by sight or appearance. [I Corinthians 5:7, AMP]

So, are mountaintop experiences, are Christian pep rallies, wrong?

Absolutely not!

But if we NEED them, if we COUNT on these experiences to maintain a walk with God, if the emotional high is necessary for us to feel close to God and stay committed to following Jesus, then we need to recognize the FACT that we are Soil Type Two, from the parable in Mark chapter four. We need to admit that we receive the Word of God with joy and excitement, but it doesn’t take much to stifle our walk with God, or sidetrack our walk entirely. We need to take steps to strengthen our faith and our commitment so we can survive these simple and frequent challenges to our life in Christ. We need to develop the discipline inherent in the word “disciple” and from which the word is derived.

How?

For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge – that you be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. [Ephesians 3:14-1 9, NIV]

In other words, USE those emotions.

Use those emotions to drive you into God’s Word, to make you want his Word, to make you thrill at the things his Holy Spirit leads you to learn and apply. Feed and strengthen your heart so that your love is more stable and more consistent. Allow God to turn your feelings into a new creation, a never before existing love for Jesus that is as strong and predictable as God’s love for us.

We need to exchange our natural love for the love that comes from God and is focused on God and points us continuously and forever toward God.

More specifically, we need to move our eyes from our love for Jesus and put our eyes on his love for us. As long as our eyes are on our love for Jesus, we will look for opportunities to feel that love and to express that love. When we cannot FEEL love for Jesus, we will lose sight of the FACT of his love for us. If we don’t FEEL our love for Jesus, we will tend to question his love for us, and to feel distant from him. And then we will tend to seek out mountaintop experiences to help us FEEL our love for God. This will tend to make us dependent on those mountaintop experiences.

But if we keep our eyes on his love for us, then our love for him will be a natural response to his love for us. And a natural response to his constant love for us will be a more consistent love for him.

It is natural for us to be aware of and to experience our emotions. But it is spiritually immature for us to allow our emotions to drive our relationship with God. We MUST keep in the forefront of our minds God’s love for us, and the constant and eternal nature of that love, or we will waver and fluctuate in our love for him. It MUST be his nature that provides the foundation for our relationship with him, and NOT our natures.

A mountaintop experience tends to move our eyes from God’s love for us to our love for him; from his constant and eternal love for us to our fluctuating and temporal love for him. And if our eyes are on our fluctuating and emotional feelings for him, as soon as that mountaintop experience is over, we are particularly exposed to Satan’s deceptions. That makes our mountaintop experiences a danger to our walks with God. Remember, the higher we get, the farther we can fall.

But when God’s love permeates and saturates our hearts, we will see wisdom come from our emotions. When God’s constant and consistent love for us is the “solid as a rock” foundation of our walk with him, we will see stronger and more stable walks with God after all our mountaintop experiences. We will see God change our lives and the lives of others around us. And we will watch God change us from Soil Type Two to Soil Type Four in that parable.

And then we can totally enjoy and benefit from our Christian pep rallies.

Now, when is the next Carman concert?

 

 

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WARNING!!!

Mountaintop Experience Ahead!

Mountaintop Experiences produce high levels of excitement. High levels of excitement reduce our natural sense of caution. Walking on the edge of a sheer cliff does not seem so scary when on a spiritual high. If you believe you can fly, you are not so concerned about falling.

Keeping your spiritual guard up is most important when coming off a spiritual high or a mountaintop experience. Keep your eyes on God and allow the Holy Spirit to guide your steps. Only in this way can you avoid tumbling off the cliff.

Enjoy your mountaintop experiences, but always recognize them for what they are – an opportunity for you to make unwise and emotional decisions or to rely on your feelings in order to walk with God.

Don’t be a spiritual junkie where your feelings need constant feeding. Instead, feed your spirit with the Word of God and the fellowship of the Saints.

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We have so much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s Word all over again. You need milk, not solid food. Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. Therefore, let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity… [Hebrews 5:11-6:1, NIV]

Religious Delusions

By TNSr5r@unseen.is, November, 2013

 

One of the many possible examples of Soil Type One in the Parable of the Soils, as recorded in Chapter 4 of Mark, is the intellectual person who is just too open-minded and inclusive to believe in the impossibly confining views and demands expressed in the Bible. And these so-called Intellectuals all tend to look and sound the same.

In psychological circles, one is often labeled as paranoid schizophrenic when one builds one or more delusions, or fictional worlds, within which one likes to dwell, or continually dwells, to the exclusion of what the rest of us call “reality.”

In religious circles, we can see that exact same situation.

Some of the symptoms, or traits, of a strong paranoid delusion include: a clear “we versus they” duality; an obvious but usually undefined set of rules for this delusional world; a tendency to quickly judge those who do not spontaneously obey these rules without explanation, who do not know the rules without being told them, as being deficient or inferior in some way; a developing or evolving story line; few, if any, are on the “we” side and almost everyone is on the “they” side”; “facts” to support the delusion are taken from many sources, even diametrically opposed sources, but nearly always taken out of context so they can be misconstrued or misrepresented easily; underlying assumptions and presumptions – sometimes even the primary beliefs are unconscious beliefs, with the delusional individual often unaware of them.

Unfortunately, a strong religious delusion shares almost all the same symptoms.

The purpose for this essay is not to outline a strategy to change or “convert” these people. The people who maintain these religious delusions are usually quite firm in their beliefs, and seldom open to changing them. Any discussion or debate of the issues is fun for the intellectual exercise, but normally become frustrating all individuals who are involved. In other words, argument is probably a waste of time. Further, argument will almost always degrade to personal insults and subjective perspectives.

Allow me to offer some definitions for the purpose of our discussion:

Christian – one who perceives oneself to be a follower of Jesus as the Christ, the Messiah, to the exclusion of all other religious leaders; one who perceives the Bible as the primary religious text concerning Jesus

Evangelical Christian – a Christian who perceives himself or herself to be on the conservative side of the collection of individuals claiming to be Christians; one who believes that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus are established historical and spiritual facts; one who believes that the Bible is inspired by God in the original texts and TRUTH for all Christians; one who believes that the purpose of all Believers is to live like Jesus as closely as possible

Bible – a collection of writings involving dozens of writers over thousands of years compiled into a document that was and is inspired by God and accurate in the original texts; a “book” that exists today only in translation, which is just that: the result of sincere people performing a careful and detailed translation using what they believed to be the best texts available to them at the time; the major translations today being so similar in text that the differences are more in the depths and nuances of meaning than in actual meaning of the words; does not include some later attempts to “translate” based on a clear and usually stated attempt to change the meaning of earlier translations in order to conform more to the current social and religious beliefs of a minority of people who may not even call themselves Christians (e.g. a certain “modern translation” by a well-known science fiction author to render God either female or gender neutral)

Over the years, I have found myself put in the position of dialoging, even debating, with quite a number of people who refer to themselves as Christians in their earlier lives but later tended to pull back from that description. They have all been quite intelligent and well-read. And they have all tended to embrace the fairly common belief that all major religions teach the same core “truths” and worship the same God by one name or another. Within their ranks, they are not unique but often believe they are.

I have always treasured these discussions, not so much because I saw any victory in pushing or pulling the other individual in any given spiritual direction, but because I valued the refreshing and stimulating thought processes involved in these often intense discussions. One must be an original thinker in order to swim upstream against the current, and I will always appreciate an original thinker. But from these discussions, I have observed some similarities in those thought processes that I thought I might put forth, evidence that not ALL this thinking is original. And I have decided to write about why I believe at least some of those thought processes are inherently wrong, internally inconsistent, and even intellectually dishonest. And these beliefs are all a closed world, are all self-reinforcing, and are all accountable to ONLY their own subjective realities.

I am not saying that any of the individuals were dishonest, but that certain similarities in the thought processes of these people tended toward internal inconsistency and even intellectual dishonesty. In truth, I believe that each of these people were engaged in a spiritual delusion of monumental importance, and most were not aware of this fact.

Allow me to describe and to build a delusion of my own for you to review and comment.

Naturally, there are some ground rules that we must accept for our discussions, or we can go no further. This condition of mandated ground rules is, of course, the norm for all spiritual delusions I have encountered, although normally left unspoken until it was needed to defend the delusion.

First, there is a God, and there is only one God, but this God is NOT like any God or god worshiped in any of the well-known religious traditions; similar to all of them, but different from any of them. Instead, my God is more an amalgam of a number of these traditions. God is, after all, a representation of a particular religious perspective, but in reality the same God is worshiped by all. What you call your God is merely your view of God from the position where you stand. Others are standing in different positions and see a slightly different view. It is pompous and prideful for you to claim that your view from your perspective is correct to the exclusion of all other views and perspectives. God is too great to be limited by any man’s vision and understanding.

Second, God has chosen to reveal himself in many ways and to many groups of people. I accept the Bible and the words of Jesus as authoritative. I also accept other religious writings and other religious figures as authoritative. But we must accept the proviso that the Bible we have today was written by many authors over thousands of years. We must accept that no effort of man is without flaws. We must accept that almost all biblical authors had little or no knowledge of the other authors, or of the other texts, and so had no opportunity to coordinate and cooperate with the messages of other writers. As a result, the collection of stories and letters that is today accepted as the Bible must also be understood to be both incomplete and embellished. Incomplete because there is no reason to believe that God is finished inspiring authors to write; embellished because newer writers and translators over time have added snippets, perhaps entire sections, in order to clarify what they believed was the intent and meaning of the original authors and the original texts.

Third, I accept a long list of authors and teachers as authoritative about God: who and what he is, what he is like, what he wants, and how to get to know him. I quote these authorities often in discussions of God and religious issues, and I expect you to have read these authorities and understand what they believe when we discuss these issues. If you cannot, then we both must accept that you can have very little of importance to add to our discussion or to my beliefs. We both must accept that you are intellectually limited for purposes of our discussion. I will USUALLY listen to what you have to say with some patience, but only with that proviso. I am, after all, a Christian, and Christians are if nothing else loving and open to others of a different belief.

Fourth, the only restriction to our discussion, and this is a major point that cannot be debated or negotiated, is the fact that no author or teacher viewed as a conservative Christian is accepted as authoritative unless only certain claims are allowed and other claims can be dismissed, at my discretion. Any author or teacher who once held a conservative Christian view of God and who has more recently modified his views to be more open and inclusive, is naturally considered to be more authoritative in his more recent views. All honest thinkers must be open to further enlightenment, and those who are not, those who have remained unchanging in their views over time, have limited content to add to our discussions.

Fifth, the actual context of any biblical reference is insignificant. What any biblical author or character has said is at issue; who it was said to, what those listening believed, how they responded, what was going on before or during what was said – all are unimportant factors when it comes to interpreting what was said and what we should “hear” from what was said. What those people intended is never as important as what we conclude. Included in this ground rule is the fact that there is no TRUTH, no absolute, no “fact” that is true under any and all circumstances and for any and all people. Everything in this life is subject to interpretation and to personal application in ways that might vary from individual to individual. In other words, you can never tell me that I am wrong.

And last, it is stipulated by all parties in any discussion that sources and claims which are contrary to those offered by Evangelical Christians are to be accepted as equally authoritative, and are acceptable as a complete and effective rebuttal to any claim or quote made by an Evangelical Christian, regardless of the source or of the beliefs of the source.

So what will our discussion sound like?

Like every conversation I have had with a knowledgeable cynic who had the above perspectives on these issues. Like almost every discussion I have had with a Soil Type One individual.

No matter what is stated, one or more of the ground rules allows for a counter that can pretty much stop the conversation.

And what really is the purpose of those ground rules? It allows me to pick and choose what I believe and who I believe, and does not allow you to offer any argument that I cannot easily dismiss.

In fact, my favorite tactic is to counter a conservative argument with some quote from someone famous, usually someone with strongly stated spiritual views. He or she doesn’t have to have any particular educational qualifications, just strongly stated views that are contrary to some conservative view stated by you. For example, you can make some claim about God and I could rebut your claim by quoting some politician or some scientist, ANY politician or scientist, who disagrees with your claim. And since any claim by anyone is considered a credible claim when it is counter to any claim offered by a conservative Christian, then my claim trumps your claim and you cannot win.

My delusion is self-validating and self-reinforcing. No one can win any argument against me because I am in control of what is and what is not authoritative.

And the real issue is that I am in control. I decide what is right and wrong, who is right and wrong, what is acceptable and not acceptable. And often I do so by claiming that there IS no right and wrong. I get to control the argument. And because I control the argument, I cannot lose the argument. Ever.

AND I GET TO DEFINE GOD!

While I will NEVER admit it, I have become my own idol. I have taken the position of God. I have defined what is TRUTH. My intellect has become the most important and most powerful force in the universe. I can quote more authorities than you. I can reference more books and authors and theologians than you. I can assume without proof that I MUST be right because I CAN reference more books and authors and theologians than you.

He who knows, wins.

And since I control who and what God is, I don’t have to FEAR taking any authority away from him. I don’t have to FEAR making God a creation of mine.

I don’t have to FEAR God!

The ONLY thing I have to fear is for you to understand the presuppositions and the stipulations of our discussion. I cannot admit to them, and you cannot delineate them. All the presuppositions and stipulations MUST remain unspoken. And if anyone points them out, I will deny them. No matter how much I have used any particular item above, I will deny believing that item or using that item.

I KNOW that the presuppositions and stipulations are totally unreasonable, totally illogical, and totally unfair. But my entire peace and confidence, my entire life, depends on those views. And it depends on those views remaining unspoken, so I never have to confront how unreasonable and illogical and unfair are the foundations of my belief system and my life.

As long as you and I remain within the confines of those presuppositions and those stipulations, we can have a profitable and fruitful conversation.

After all, I am open-minded, right?

 

I was raised in a Christian home.   All my life I have been taught that God created all things.  I was also taught that Jesus Christ was His son, and it is through Christ alone that we are able to return to Heaven someday.

God, in all His wisdom, created not only the world, galaxy, and universe, and everything in and on them, but also the laws governing all these realms of existence.  If God created laws to govern the physical world, then it stands to reason that these laws are absolute, and cannot be broken.  We may have only given names to a few of these laws (Law of Gravity, Laws of Thermodynamics, Ideal Gas Law, etc.) but there are other laws God has set into motion such as natural law, as mentioned in the very astute posts “What I Believe,” and “So Called Gay Marriage.”

Another law I would consider to be a “natural law” would be mathematical law.  (1+1=2,  anything that opposes that goes against that natural law.)

I have also been taught, and fully believe that God cannot lie.  He tells the truth, regardless of how that makes us feel.  He tells us what is right.   Isaiah 65:16 tells us that God is a God of truth.

I also believe that because of the numerous references of God, as “Heavenly Father” that we are His  children.  1 John 3:10 tells us we are his children. And that He knows and loves each one of us as any loving father loves his children.  Completely and unconditionally.  And as a Father, God wants to teach us, and wants us to grow, and learn, and succeed.

So if God is our Father, and we are His children, and He only tells us truth, and as children He would want to explain things so we can understand them, and we have scriptures like Acts 7: 55 that describe prophets literally seeing God and Jesus Christ as two separate and distinct individuals, why does so much of Christianity tell us that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are one being in three bodies? In fact he even re-iterates himself in the very next verse 56 as if to say, “LOOK! This is what I saw, don’t misunderstand what I’m saying!”

Matthew 3:16 documents when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and even describes Jesus being in the water, the Holy Spirit descending in the form of a dove, and in verse 17 God speaking saying, “And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

Three separate beings.

John 20:17, after Christ’s resurrection He tells Mary, “touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father.” Why would Jesus talk in third person about “himself” if he is also God the Father?  furthermore why would he have to “ascend to” Him? If He is the being that He needed to visit, talk to, confer with, etc, why would He HAVE to leave in order to do what needed to be done?

When Jesus was a child and he was teaching the elders in the temple Luke 2:49 Jesus directly refers to God as “my Father,” when Mary asked his where he had been.

Why would there be so many references BY Christ himself, to “The Father,” if they were one person?  I know some of you may quote John 10:30  “I and my Father are one.” But I don’t think he meant this physically.   But if he meant that they were in fact ONE BEING, why didn’t he just say it?   Mark 10:8 states “And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.”  But here Jesus is specifically talking about a husband and wife being “one flesh.”  So if he was able to articulate “one flesh” about a husband and a wife, but he only ever spoke about He and his Father as “one,” but constantly talked about the Father in the third person, then to me, that says they are two distinct, individual beings.  Like when my wife and I talk to our kids, if they ask one of us for something, it’s as good as asking both of us.  We are “one in purpose” and as Mark 10:8 says, even “one in flesh,” but that does not mean we are the same person.  I am my own person, just as my wife is her own person, so although we are two individuals, our marriage makes us “one.” Just as The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are “one” it is in purpose, not “one being.”

All this leads me back to Acts 7:55 & 56

“⁵⁵But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

⁵⁶ And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.”

From all this, I know that God is our Heavenly Father.  We are his children.  Jesus Christ is His son. Children from the same father are siblings, so I think it would be fair to conclude that Jesus is our brother.  What an AWESOME thought! And the Holy Spirit is God’s messenger, who speaks to us and gives us guidance.

And that’s what I believe.

-Joseph Forefathers

Christian Fatalism

By TNSr5r@unseen.is, January, 2014

I hear the question/issue almost every day: “What is God trying to teach me by putting me through these circumstances?” Or maybe, “…by sending me to prison?”

First, personally, I don’t believe that God sent me to prison. Second, personally, I don’t think that God sent me to prison because he couldn’t teach me some specific lesson in any other way. Third, generally, I really don’t believe that Scripture teaches that God sends bad things or hard times to teach people lessons. Fourth, generally, God often sends believers into circumstances (good AND bad) to be in place for someone else’s need or benefit.

First, I don’t believe that God sent me to prison. I believe that I started on a path back in 1990 which had the risk of getting negative attention from the IRS. As soon as I started helping others fight the IRS, I was in danger. I thought about that a lot before launching. My wife and I prayed about it a lot. And we both concluded certain facts: that we must follow this course of action; that it was to benefit others who could not help themselves; that it was legal and lawful; and that it was our only option if we wanted to maintain our integrity after studying the issues as much as we studied them. At that time, I believed that the greatest risk was a felony conviction resulting in 5-8 years in prison for me, but no prison time for Bonnie. We decided to move ahead and run that risk back in 1990. It was our decision, and my actions, that resulted in me being in prison. God did not send me there; a dishonest prosecutor and an ineffective defense sent me there.

Second, I don’t think God sent me (or anyone) to prison to teach me (or us) something that he could not have taught me (or us) on the outside. It is an easy thing to predict in advance or perceive after the fact certain actions or behaviors that will result from prison influences, and it would be an easy thing to cling to one or more of them in explanation for my going to prison. It would probably be impossible to choose one of those actions or results and claim with confidence and spiritual authority that THIS is why God sent me to prison, but I could select several of the perceived benefits, or even all of them, and claim that they were why God sent me here. Most people would make a list of all positive results of being in prison, and refer to that list as answer to the above question.

Most people HAVE to have a logical explanation for their bad circumstances in life to which they can point in order to maintain their faith in the love and goodness of God.

But think about it, folks. Job was going through life enjoying EVERYTHING because EVERYTHING was awesome. Then God bumped into Satan at the mall and bragged about Job to Satan. And then Satan set about destroying Job’s life. When Satan was

finished taking Job’s health and everything good away from him, and Job asked God “Why?” God NEVER answered Job and NEVER justified allowing Satan to destroy Job.

Look again at Scripture. There was NOTHING Job needed to learn, yet his life was destroyed anyway. Perhaps the only thing Job learned by going through his horrible circumstances was the fact that God had the right to do anything he darn well pleases with and to any of us. But anyone who points that out to us scares the crap out of all of us, and paints God as being a mean and vicious God.

Of course, we like to remember the last part of Job’s life where things were better than they ever were before. We like that because it allows us to hope that if we go through anything like Job did, well, at least things would be better after all the dust settled and the blood dried.

But there was no lesson for Job to learn; there was nothing God wanted to teach Job that required such destruction and pain. I mean, read the first 3 verses of Job again:

“This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil… He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.” [Job 1:1-3, in part, NIV]

Job was blameless before God, and then Job went through hell.

Most people claim that Job had too much pride and needed to learn a lesson. I believe that such claims are based in ignorance and the NEED TO FIND A REASON. Please notice that it was not Job who claimed “he was the greatest man among all the people of the earth,” which has been falsely claimed by many — it was the narrator of the story who made that claim as he was describing Job. Scripture gives no evidence at all of any sin in Job’s life, and no evidence at all of any need to be taught any lessons.

Third, I don’t believe Scripture teaches that God sends bad things or bad circumstances into the lives of believers to teach them spiritual truths. There may be many good things that believers learn when they experience bad events and bad circumstances, but I see no passage that teaches this as one of God’s teaching tools.

In fact, I see just the opposite. Bad things happen. Period.

“He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends the rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.” [Matthew 5:45, NIV]

“…for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” [Matthew 5:45, KJV]

“…for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.” [Matthew 5:45, NASB]

Bad things happen!

Sometimes those bad things come from God. And no amount of positive thinking or self-help is going to remove a really bad day when that really bad day is sent by God. Further, no amount of lessons learned will take that bad day away.

But most Christians NEED to see a reason for bad things or bad circumstances!

Most Christians NEED to believe that God has a reason behind the horrors of their lives in order to for them to continue in faith, believing in a loving and gracious God! Most Christians today would NEVER survive Job’s experience! Most Christians today would follow the advice of one of Job’s friends to “Curse God and die!”

It is hard, or even impossible, for most Christians to believe that God would allow bad things to happen without making them better. It is even more difficult for them to believe that God just might SEND bad things.

Fourth, God sometimes sends believers into bad circumstances to have them in place for the benefit of someone else. Remember, Paul commented once that it would be better for him to go home to heaven, but it would be better for others that he remain on this earth in bad circumstances. So Paul chose to remain. Remember also, in the Garden, Jesus just plain didn’t want to go through the whole crucifixion thing, including being separated from his Father. Yet he submitted to it because of the unbelievable benefit to the entire world.

I have learned to say each morning as I awake: “I am but a pawn in God’s Great Chess game. I wonder what move he has for me today!” I have learned that living this way allows for each day to be exciting and fulfilling, regardless of being in prison; regardless of ANY circumstances! And I have also learned that sometimes pawns get sacrificed.

But, as Paul said in Romans:

“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.” [Romans 8:28, NIV]

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. [Romans 8:28, KJV]

It does not say that God CAUSES ALL THINGS; it says that God causes all things to work together for our good and his glory. Sometimes that means the Father causes my circumstances to work together for my good. Sometimes that means he causes my circumstances to work together for someone else’s good. No matter what, SOMEONE gains eternal benefits from my circumstances. And I can live with that!

The question here is not “What should I learn here?” but “How can I be used here?”

And God has used me greatly in prison in ways that are very exciting, and I will always treasure my time spent here.

No, I will NEVER like prison! No, I will NEVER believe that I deserved coming here or my prison sentence. No, I will NEVER believe that prison was a good thing for me.

But I will always treasure the opportunities I have had to touch the lives of men who are hurting and struggling and trying to see God in all of this.

And there are a lot of believers here; some preachers, some Bible College professors, some sincere Christians who just don’t know how God could allow them to go to prison when they believe they were innocent, and ESPECIALLY many men who believe that God no longer has a use for them and has discarded them.

And I have the privilege and the thrill and the honor of talking with these men and of helping them to see how God still wants to use them, and of helping them grow in ALL their lives’ circumstances.

There are too many examples in Scripture to mention all of them; of good people going through bad experiences with no clear explanation from God. If we go back to Daniel, we see that he believed God COULD keep him alive, but NOT that God WOULD keep him alive. I believe that Scripture indicates that Daniel expected to die that day, and he was at peace with it. When God finally DID keep him alive, Daniel gave God the credit for his miracle and received a job promotion! Undoubtedly, God keeping Daniel alive got people’s attention. But if you read the entire story again carefully, you will see that it was Daniel’s attitude all through the process (as well as all through his captivity) that so impressed the Chaldean ruler that Daniel was promoted after he partied with some lions and angels.

Something similar happened to Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. They suffered a death sentence and survived, and that got them attention. I believe Scripture indicates the men believed they were going to die that day, and they faced it with godly attitudes. And a careful reading of the passage shows that it was their attitudes, that day and all through their captivity, which got them promotions and made their lives better.

They were (all 4 of them) in cast in very bad circumstances, and they were (all 4 of them) manifesting an attitude of loving and serving and worshipping God through it all.

And they were (all 4 of them) NEVER given an explanation by God!

God wanted that attitude more than anything. And when they survived their death sentences, did God free them and allow them to go home? No. But God did give them promotions and other benefits.

And God used their hearts, shown by their attitudes, to touch other people’s lives!

I am convinced that God is not situational in his perspective, but attitudinal. What I mean is, God is less concerned about our circumstances than he is about our attitudes IN our circumstances. It takes the supernatural grace of God to face bad circumstances with the right attitudes. And it is those right attitudes that affect the hearts and lives of those around us.

Yes, surviving a death sentence gets attention. But that only sells tickets. It is the heartfelt attitude of “Yet though he slay me, I will still serve him” which Job showed that touches hearts and brings people to God.

God is more concerned that I face each day as his Ambassador, ready for his use, than he is that I am in prison serving an unjustified sentence. I may have to deal with being in prison, but it is in being in prison that I get the joy of touching the lives of these men.

WHERE I am is merely SO THAT God can use me in the life of someone here!

Does God Sentence People To An Eternity Of Punishment In Hell?

By TNSr5r@unseen.is, February, 2014

 

Many people ask this question. In fact, millions have asked this question over the past 2,000 years, and even longer. Some have asked out of fear; some because they do not know. Many have asked because they would seek to condemn, or at least reject, a God who would torture people for an eternity FOR ANY REASON at all, but especially those people refused to kneel down and worship him.

So how about it? Does God sentence people to eternal torture just because they would not do exactly what he demands?

The first thing that must be settled is the fact that we are dealing with a Biblical concept so we will look for the answers in the Bible. It would be a little foolish, and MORE than a little dishonest, if we ask a biblical question and then look for the answer in the Koran or the Encyclopedia Britannica or in some autobiography of a famous actor or some other writing. If we ask a question about a Biblical concept, then we are intellectually and philosophically limited to the Bible for an answer to the question.

In other words, let’s say the Bible DOES claim that God will send anyone who doesn’t totally obey him to spend an eternity in torture. If we can find an acceptable explanation in ANY OTHER WRITING, we can claim we have the option of embracing that answer and putting the matter to rest.

But would the matter STAY at rest? I mean, really? For most people, there would always be questions; like, “If God really meant THAT, then why didn’t he put it in the Bible?” or, “If God really meant THAT, then why did it take thousands of years to let us know? Isn’t that torture in itself? Letting millions of people die in fear of their eternity, yet knowing all the time that the answer would get written in the Twentieth Century: only a cruel God would do that!”

ADMIT IT! No matter what answer you come up with, no matter how much sense it makes to you, ANY ANSWER to this question that does not come from the Bible will bring up many more questions. Face it: only God can come up with an acceptable answer to this question, and the Bible is the only acceptable place to put that answer. If God is going to put that THREAT in the Bible, then God must put the EXPLANATION in the Bible, too.

So feel free to look anywhere else you want for the answer to this question, but I will take the time to look at only the Bible for the answer and nowhere else. In other words, you can read anyone’s conjecture ABOUT the Bible, or you can read the Bible.

And the answer is not a simple or short response. If you ask a deep question about an eternal issue, one about which many thousands of pages of text has been written over thousands of years, and you want a short yes/no answer… Well, don’t you think that is kind of stupid? You asked a serious question about a serious issue, and you will get a serious answer. Deal with it! After all, one way or another, this is YOUR eternity we are talking about!

But first let me clear up two errors that have been propagated, perhaps even invented, by the Christian Church.

First, you don’t go to hell because of things you do. No one goes to hell because he or she commits sins, or does bad things, or makes mistakes. No one goes to hell for lying or stealing or committing adultery. You can go to hell for one reason and ONLY one reason – you have chosen to not believe the God of the Bible and the claims of Christ.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. [Romans 1:18-21, NASB]

Second, you don’t go to heaven because of the things you do. Anyone and everyone can go to heaven regardless of your religious background and beliefs. Scripture tells us that people can go to heaven if they choose to go to heaven. The only requirement is to believe in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus – believe that in his life, death, and resurrection there is a power and a plan to erase sin and render you acceptable to God for an eternity. And Scripture indicates that “believe” is more than a simple intellectual collection of facts; it is instead a process of accepting by faith that this life, death, and resurrection of Jesus is the only sacrifice for your sins that is acceptable to God and relying on that sacrifice as your only means of being invited to heaven by God. This “believe” results in being adopted into the Family of God and in being an adopted brother to Jesus.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. [Roman 3:21-26, NIV]

You don’t go to hell for what you do – you go to hell because of who you are.

If you are adopted into God’s family, you go with him to heaven for an eternity. If you aren’t adopted into God’s family, you get left behind. It’s as simple as that!

Now, back to the question of hell…

The concept of hell was ambiguously present in what Christians call the Old Testament, the first two-thirds of the Christian Bible. The Jews would refer to these writings as the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms, or sometimes the Torah. The libraries of Christians and Jews alike have many, many books and essays and theological papers on hell, but both have very little Scripture on it. [SEE NOTE #1]

The Christian New Testament has more on the topic, and it is more specific, but most of the individual references, both Old and New Testament, are still somewhat incomplete. In other words, it takes putting them all together into a composite description before you can actually get a picture of hell. But first, we need to tell a story in order to get the “big picture” so the smaller snapshots will make more sense.

So, let’s start way back at the beginning; and the beginning was way back before the universe was created.

Before God created anything, he had a PLAN. He wanted a being, perhaps many beings, besides himself for fellowship and companionship for the rest of eternity. We don’t know how long he waited to implement this PLAN, because we don’t have any calendar to measure the first part of eternity, eternity past. Or the second part of eternity, eternity future, for that matter. Anyway, it was a long time ago, if we can even use the word “time” in this part of the discussion. Also, I don’t intend to say that God NEEDED our fellowship, or that he WANTED our fellowship; there are many books of theology to address that question. You are on your own for that. I merely want to say that God DECIDED to have our fellowship. God DECIDED to create a being that had an eternal part, an eternal aspect of his being, which would last for eternity. Stick with me here; this is important.

According to the Bible, only God, angelic beings, and mankind, will be around for the rest of eternity. [SEE NOTE #2]

Of course, many people want to think that their dogs will be in heaven for eternity, too, and I kind of like that idea. But those who talk about “doggie heaven” with everyone don’t talk about “doggie hell” with anyone. So we are going to restrict our discussion to just God, angelic beings, and mankind.

So God DECIDED to create mankind. And he decided to create an entire universe as mankind’s playground, and a beautiful planet for mankind to live on.   And then he created his masterpiece: mankind. Note that God created mankind in two models – male and female. There were probably many reasons why God created a male and female version of mankind, but the first reason given in the Bible was so that mankind would reflect the image of God. Apparently it took a male and a female version of mankind in order to get enough of God reflected to satisfy him. Maybe that means that Adam by himself was not God’s image, contrary to what so many people have taught for so many years; maybe creating mankind in God’s image required creating a male and female in fellowship. But again, you can argue about that on your own time.

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let THEM rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over the creatures that move along the ground.” So God created man in his image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he THEM. [Genesis 1:26-27, NIV]

Some people have suggested it was a little wasteful for God to create an entire universe just for a single planet of people. But when you can do ANYTHING you want to do, does it really matter?

And some people believe God created such a huge universe because he wanted to create more than one planet full of people. But when you can do anything you want, does it really matter?

So, to get back to the issue, God created mankind with an eternal spirit, and he placed mankind in a beautiful garden full of good things to eat, plenty of sunshine, a VERY limited wardrobe, and HBO.

Hold it! Don’t interrupt me! I can tell just by looking at you that you are about to claim Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden are just a story and you don’t believe it. But I would say that the Bible presents the story as if it is true, and key figures all through the Bible, including Jesus, all speak of Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden as if they existed. So I have a question for you: If you are going to cut out part of the Bible just because you don’t believe that part, then why don’t you cut out the parts about hell and save me a lot of trouble here?

Still here? Good. And you have just uncovered our second ground rule. The first rule is that we limit the material for our answers to the facts and material in the Bible. The second rule is that we accept ALL of the Bible and we don’t cut out parts just because we don’t or can’t believe in those parts. If we start down that trail, we finish only when we run out of White-Out!

And the third rule is WE DON’T INTERRUPT THE STORY! All righty, then; let’s move on.

But first let me comment on what you were about to bring up. Do you think you are the first to claim there is a part of the Bible you can’t believe? Come on, man, think about it! We are talking about eternity here; infinity in every way possible. And we are talking about God. GOD! That means we HAVE to talk about the impossible! Do you think IMPOSSIBLE is a problem with an infinite God?

Seriously, do you think an eternal hell is even POSSIBLE?

If you think an eternal hell is impossible, and you don’t believe in the impossible, then why are we wasting time here? Let’s blow this discussion and go watch something that is the perfect example of possible: like all the unbelievably stupid people on these “He did my girlfriend so I am going to do his mom” talk shows. I mean, is it possible that there are REALLY that many people stupid enough to fill so many episodes? And do you think there are REALLY that many people stupid enough to WATCH all those shows?

Or, if you want impossible that we can all “see,” let’s look at light. If you can look at light, that is. Scientists tell us that light is a wave of energy in a particular series of wavelengths. Yet they admit that light is also a particle of matter they call a photon. So light is at the same time BOTH a wave of energy AND a particle of matter. And, YES, scientists tell us that is impossible. But impossible doesn’t stop them from soaking up millions of dollars of tax money each year to study impossible.

So DO YOU REALLY THINK IMPOSSIBLE STOPS GOD?

We are talking about a supernatural God and an eternal hell, and you want to tell me you don’t believe in Adam and Eve and a special garden because it is IMPOSSIBLE?

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” [Matthew 19:26, NIV]

Now, I told you about interrupting the story!

So God created mankind in his own image by creating a male and a female. And being in his image means, IN PART, that mankind will live forever with God. And God put mankind in a special garden facing a river, a couple of trees, and endless possibilities. All God asked was one tiny thing.

And mankind blew it! Eve said, “The devil made me do it!” and Adam said, “May I remind you, God, that it was your idea to bring Eve into the game. I was doing just fine without her.” And God said, “ENOUGH!” and there was silence for a moment. “I gave you a fantastic playground where you could do anything you wanted. I put the most handsome man in the world with the most beautiful woman on the planet. And I gave you everything you needed to eat so you would never have to work for your dinner, and never have to wash the dishes. And I gave you ONE RULE! Only one thing in all the world were you told to not do! And as soon as I turned my back, what did you do?

YOU BROKE MY ONE RULE!

“Adam, you have no idea the repercussions, the ripple effect, your decision is going to have. You have made a horrible impact on all of creation! I created mankind so that ALL MANKIND would enjoy an eternity in heaven with me. EVERYONE who came from your union would have spent an eternity where there was nothing but perfection. EVERY GENERATION of mankind until I stop the clock would have spent a small amount of time on this perfect planet, and then would have gone to spend eternity with me in a perfect heaven.

“But you blew it for everyone, Adam. No, you didn’t surprise me. No, your decision was not unexpected. But you DID disappoint me, Adam. I had intended for ALL mankind to spend eternity in heaven with me. YOU just made that impossible! Someday, you will understand what your decision to disobey me will do to the rest of mankind.”

So God kicked Adam and Eve out of that special garden into a world where they would have to struggle and experience all sorts of problems. And wash a lot of dishes. And it was a VERY imperfect world from that point forward.

But God continued to follow his PLAN to spend eternity with as many of mankind as possible.

You see, God had already dealt with some of his angelic beings. They broke God’s Rules, too. [SEE NOTE #3]

So God had created what we call heaven, a place of perfection where absolutely nothing imperfect can enter. And God sealed heaven against imperfection for all eternity. Nothing imperfect will EVER be able to go to heaven. God will be in heaven for eternity, and as many people as God can gather will be there with him.

But everyone and everything that God CANNOT gather to himself and take to heaven will have to remain in an imperfect universe, forever separated from God, forever separated from everything wonderful and good and perfect. [SEE NOTE #4]

But back to the PLAN…

So God chose a particular group of people, a tribe directly descended from a man he liked, named Abraham, as the people he would honor and bless in ways no other people in all of history would be honored and blessed. The catch? Again, all they had to do was obey the rules. But this time there were ten of them. And what happened? The people blew it.

When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, “Come, make us a god who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don’t know what has happened to him.” [Exodus 32:1, NIV]

So God created a new and much larger set of rules. This time the set of rules had two purposes. One purpose was to show mankind just how serious disobedience was to God. God created a spiritual law that required a blood sacrifice for every sin. Someone sinned and something had to die. Then he set up a series of feast days, holy days that the people had to observe, to make the sacrifices more endurable by the people. The second purpose was to show the people how to live. Or more specifically, how God’s Chosen People should live in order to demonstrate: 1) their love for God, 2) their love toward the rest of God’s Chosen People, and 3) God’s love for all people everywhere.

This was a sort of “First and foremost, LOVE ME. And then follow the rest of the rules as if they were normal actions springing out of that love. In addition, there are things you will need to do, sacrifices, that will make amends for messing up. If you LOVE me, and if you LIVE like you love me, and if you FOLLOW these simple steps to maintain the fellowship that I wanted all along, then everything will be fine.”

After all, God wanted to make it clear that he loved his chosen people in a special way. And if he made it clear how he wanted them to live in response to his love, then they would naturally want to please him, and they would live just exactly how he wanted them to live. Right?

And what was this system of rules? It was very simple. In order to repair the damage that Adam caused to all of creation, and in order to spend an eternity in heaven with God, YOU HAD TO BE PERFECT! That’s all there was to it! [SEE NOTE #5]

“But,” you exclaim, “NO ONE is perfect!” And you are exactly right. But God had a PLAN for that, too. So stop interrupting!

As I was saying, the people exercised their self-will anyway. Obedience became limited to certain actions God demanded and the love of God was all but ignored. They cut some corners. They bent some rules. Other rules they just plain broke. The rules about a blood sacrifice became so twisted that many people lived like they wanted to live and counted on those sacrifices to make them acceptable in God’s eyes anyway. It got so bad that they had a group of people, a sort of religious police force they called the Pharisees, whose primary function was to wander around and watch for people ignoring or breaking the rules. In other words, the people just didn’t measure up to the simple rules that God wanted for them. Jesus himself pointed out the problem of that time: the Pharisees may have been the most OBEDIENT of the people, but even they weren’t good enough to spend eternity in heaven with God.

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 5:20, NIV]

God’s spiritual rules were put in place to show people how to be righteous, how to be in right standing before God. But instead, the people slid into a sort of mindless and soulless obedience of the rules. And they just plain forgot about loving God.

But God was waiting for just the right time to open the next part of his PLAN. This part involved a Perfect Sacrifice, a sacrifice that didn’t just cover up the sins of the people who were committed since the last sacrifice. This was a Perfect Sacrifice that paid for all sins, that actually MADE RIGHTEOUS the people who had sinned. This Perfect Sacrifice would change the people back into what mankind started out to be – perfect and without sin.

This Perfect Sacrifice MADE the people perfect in God’s eyes. [SEE NOTE #6]

But this Perfect Sacrifice was going to be the most PAINFUL sacrifice in all eternity. A Perfect Sacrifice was going to take more than just a lamb without blemish. It would take a Lamb that was, well, PERFECT!   This Perfect Sacrifice would take nothing less than the sinless Son of God.

This blood sacrifice that would be a perfect and eternal sacrifice, a sacrifice that would not need to be repeated at feast after feast, that would NEVER need to be repeated again – EVER – would have to be Jesus.

And this Perfect Sacrifice wouldn’t just COVER UP sin, but actually PAY the penalty required, the blood sacrifice required, for sins so those same sins could be forgiven.

FORGIVEN! You see, forgiven is the flip side of perfect. Forgiven is where God no longer sees your sins. You have heard it said, “Love is blind!” This is how God turns FORGIVEN into something practical:

When you have been forgiven and God looks at you, he doesn’t see your sins.

When you have been forgiven and God looks at you, he sees a sinless and a righteous and a PERFECT person.

When you have been forgiven and God looks at you, he sees Jesus!

And because of that, God can invite you into his heaven for eternity.

And what is the catch? All you have to do is accept that Perfect Sacrifice as the one and only sacrifice necessary for your sins. Nothing else is necessary and nothing else is allowed. Believe it and accept it. Of course, you can’t really believe it and keep on living the way you had been living. But that was part of God’s PLAN, too. If you truly believe this Perfect Sacrifice can deal with sin in a way that mankind cannot deal with it, and if you accept this Perfect Sacrifice to pay for the all of the sins you personally have committed over your life, then God agrees to overlook your sins, agrees to let love blind him concerning your sins, and he will invite you to spend eternity with him in heaven after you die.

That’s all there was to it.

Perhaps there is one more issue we should address.

Technically, hell is not eternal.

Yes, I know, everyone says it is. If you have heard any sermons on the issue, I suspect the preacher told you that hell was eternal. But hell is a holding place until the Second Coming of Jesus and his Final Judgment. Then Satan and demons and hell and all the people who rejected Jesus will be thrown into what the Bible calls the “lake of fire,” and God will take the rest of home to Heaven with him.

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. [Revelation 20:10-15, NASB]

In all of Scripture, there are only two eternal places; two places where everything that was created in Genesis will remain forever; two places where created beings can spend eternity. One is heaven, and one is the lake of fire. And make no mistake about it: you will be in one place or the other for all eternity. One place we will have love and joy and excitement for all eternity. The other place “they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”

So let’s ask the question again:

DOES GOD SEND PEOPLE TO SPEND AN ETERNITY OF PUNISHMENT IN HELL?

And this is God’s answer:

I gave mankind one simple rule. You blew it!

Then I gave you ten simple rules. You blew it!

Then I gave you detailed rules so clear that even an idiot studying to be a moron could follow them. You blew it!

Then I gave you a system of sacrifices that would cover all your sins committed since the last sacrifice just to show you how serious this sin business really is, so you could make sure you were in right standing before God. You still blew it!

I gave my own Perfect Son as a once and for all sacrifice with only one requirement: that you believe it and accept by faith that this Perfect Sacrifice will pay the penalty for all of your sin and rebellion. And you blew it once again!

I have done EVERYTHING I CAN FOR YOU! All you have to do is make a choice.

And you still blow it!

Yet you blame me! You claim I SEND people to hell for an eternity because of some silly mistakes on their part.

SORRY, MAN! IT’S YOUR CHOICE! I say again: IT’S YOUR CHOICE! I DON’T SEND ANYONE TO HELL!

You can choose to put your faith in my Perfect Sacrifice as payment for your sins, and stop depending on your own efforts and your own goodness for that payment, and you can spend an eternity in heaven with me.

Or you can choose to go your own way.

In other words, it is my way or the Highway to Hell!

BUT NO ONE GOES TO ETERNAL PUNISHMENT UNLESS THEY CHOOSE TO GO TO ETERNAL PUNISHMENT! SO DON’T BLAME ME!

 This is God’s answer to the question. So let me ask, are you going to blow it, too?

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NOTE #1:

The Old Testament uses several Hebrew words that apparently mean what we now call HELL. The subject is sort of “danced around” with many vague comments that seem to MEAN hell. SHEOL and GAHENNA are the most commonly used Hebrew words before the time of Jesus. By the time the New Testament writers came along, the Greek word HADES had become the standard or “catch-all” word, from which we derive our English word hell. But Old Testament or New Testament, Hebrew words or Greek, hell ALWAYS signified a place you REALLY DID NOT WANT TO GO!

The wicked return to Sheol, all the nations that forget God. [Psalm 9:17, NIV]

Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will rest secure, because you will not abandon me to Sheol, nor will you let your Holy One see decay. [Psalm 16:9-10, NIV]

The cords of death entangle me, the anguish of Sheol came upon me; I was overcome by trouble and sorrow. [Psalm 116:3, NIV]

In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus at his side. [Luke 16:23, NIV]

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NOTE #2:

God needs no explanation, but Angelic Beings might need a few words. This is a general term for created beings who have supernatural powers and will live from their creation until “eternity future.” Within this general term is a whole host of different categories. We have absolutely no clue as to how many different categories there are, or the numbers in each category, but some Scriptures seem to suggest thousands of each exist. Among the Angelic Beings in Scripture are angels, cherubim, seraphim, military forces, and even a group called council members. No, don’t ask me to explain any of these beings, but examples in Scripture include:

So the Lord banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life. [Genesis 3:23-24, NIV]

Jacob left Beersheba and set out for Haraan. When he reached a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones there, he put it under his head and lay down to sleep. He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. [Genesis 28:10-12, NIV]

God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods.” [Psalm 82:12, NIV]

For who in the skies above can compare with the Lord? Who is like the Lord among the heavenly beings? In the council of the holy ones God is greatly feared; he is more awesome than all who surround him. [Psalm 89:6-7, NIV]

But which of them has stood in the council of the Lord to see or to hear his word? [Jeremiah 23:18, NIV]

 Did you listen in on God’s council? [Job 15:8, NIV]

Micaiah continued, “Therefore, hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramath Giliad and going to his death there?’ One suggested this and another suggested that. Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’ ‘By what means?’ the Lord asked. ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said. ‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the Lord. ‘Go and do it.’”     [I Kings 22:19-22, NIV]

Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies?” “Neither,” he replied, “but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” Then Joshua fell face down to the ground in reverence, and asked him, “What message does my Lord have for his servant?” The commander of the Lord’s army replied, “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so. [Joshua 5:13-15, NIV]

I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way. [Ephesians 1:18-23, NIV]

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NOTE #3:

Lucifer was a real bigwig in the angelic realm; so big he had his own nickname: Morning Star. He was so powerful he believed that he only needed a little more and he would be equal to God. So he gathered a large group of his fellow angels and staged a rebellion.

Lucifer lost and became renamed as Satan, and he and one-third of the angels, those who sided with him, were tossed out of heaven, because of God’s absolute rule that sin and rebellion cannot abide in heaven.

And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down – that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. [Revelation 12:7-9, NIV]

How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, “I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.” But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit. [Isaiah 14:12-15, NIV]

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NOTE #4

Again, God created heaven so that he had someplace eternal where he could spend the rest of eternity with the angelic beings and the human beings he had created. When Satan and his followers lost his rebellion, they were thrown out of heaven. When Adam and Eve rebelled, mankind became infected with sin, and it was passed down from one generation to another. Before Adam and Eve disobeyed, all mankind was destined to spend eternity with God in heaven. AFTER Adam and Eve disobeyed, only people who individually chose to have God deal with their sin and who chose to remain in fellowship with God would be allowed in heaven. The rest would be allowed to pursue their choice – apart from God.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment . . . then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. [II Peter 4 and 9, NIV]

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone’s name was not found in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. [Revelation 20:7-15, NIV]

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NOTE #5

Remember that heaven was for God to spend the rest of eternity with mankind, AND that no sin or rebellion was to be allowed in heaven. Satan and his angels rebelled and were thrown out of heaven. So for any man or woman to be invited to heaven, that man or woman had to be without sin, had to be perfect. Heaven has a seal around it that will not allow sin to pass through.

Follow peace with all men, and be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. [Hebrews 12:14, NIV]

May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.  [I Thessalonians 3:13, NIV]

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. [Ephesians 1:4, NIV]

But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do, for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.” [I Peter 4:15-16, NIV]

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NOTE #6

You say, and I agree, that no man is PERFECT. Yet God REQUIRES us to be perfect if we are to go to heaven. But the flip side of PERFECT is FORGIVEN, and it is just as good in God’s eyes. And God offers forgiveness to all people, and that forgiveness is ours if we choose it. God is doing his part to reconcile a relationship that was originally intended to be eternal, but has been broken.

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself through Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. [II Corinthians 3:18-19, NIV]

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the sins of the whole world. [I John 2:2, NIV]

Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation – if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the Gospel.    [Colossians 1:21-23, NIV]

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.  Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. [Romans 8:1-11, NIV